The Commentator

Is it possible to engage pop culture i.e. sports, movies, television and still live a le-khathila Jewish life? 

I think that they have their place.  I don’t think sports will lead to spiritual growth in most cases.  People will tell you, “yesh adam koneh olamo beshaa ahas” – that’s Bucky Dent, who had a nothing career, and with one swing of the bat was immortalized.  There’s “yesh adam maphsid olamo beshaa shel ahas” – that’s Bill Buckner, who had 2,500 hits, but he is only remembered for one thing.  While this is good material for Derashas, it does not create objective, spiritual growth.  I think sports have a place in terms of relaxation.  People need diversions and sports can definitely be a muttar type of diversion.  However, in terms of it on its own leading to spiritual growth, I’d be surprised if it did.

Playing sports is one matter, while following sports may be another.  Do you see a place in Judaism for sports fans?

In its own right, playing sports is worthwhile as exercise.  Exercise is very important.  However, it’s another issue to be a spectator, which is not the healthiest thing to do physically, but mentally may have a place.  Nevertheless, one must be careful in how one relaxes.  One can say, I need a diversion so I put on the Yankee game, and that would be one thing.  But if I put on the Yankee game because that’s what I do every night, that is problematic. 

How do you view going to the movies “for fun?” 

Obviously, there is an issue of what’s muttar and what’s not, but assuming that a movie is muttar, it is no different than a novel.  As such, a movie could certainly be a diversion. Additionally, a movie can have the potential to effect spiritual growth.  It could raise issues, it could present thought points that you might not have thought of otherwise.  Therefore, I would put movies in the same categories as novels, with the caveat that a large percentage of movies – maybe a large percentage of novels also – have halakhic issues unto themselves.

What do you see as the place of popular music in the life of a Jew?  Is there a place at all? 

Music definitely has its place in Judaism.  That’s a lot of what the Levi’im did for a living.  I remember the late Rosh Yeshiva of Kerem be-Yavneh used to enjoy classical music.  I imagine that was his way of relaxing, and that’s a fine way of doing it.  However, that rarely leads to spiritual growth.  Maybe if someone really knows music and can appreciate the genius of music, much like biology they’d be able to see God in it. Nevertheless, for the typical person listening to typical music, it is a diversion, but one that is muttar in many cases.  That said, there is a halakhic issue with music.  The Mishna Berurah says that nowadays, we’re not allowed to listen to it, and R. Moshe [Feinstein] seems to be leaning that way.  Nevertheless, based on the burgeoning Jewish music market, I think most people do not paskin that way.

You mentioned the Jewish music industry.  Is there a positive value to attempting to create a unique Jewish popular culture? 

I think it has a value for people who are looking for that.  If someone has a desire to listen to wild music, then I imagine that there might be a value to having underlying Jewish lyrics rather than “Stairway to Heaven” – and halevai the quality should be as good.  Take Shlomo Carlebach for instance: the amount of people he was mekarev through his music…  Say what you want about him, but that’s a big number.  So, if done the right way, there is value to it.

Are there people for whom you would encourage more engagement with popular culture, or less engagement with popular culture?  How should one determine what is and is not appropriate? 

Being that I see popular culture more as a diversion, it’s a matter of what works for you.  Take movies for example.  I would imagine that anything rated “R,” and most things rated “PG-13,” are halakhically problematic.  If someone can enjoy movies while avoiding these issues, then it would be appropriate.  If someone will inevitably lose control of themselves and watch inappropriate movies, then it would not be appropriate.  It goes according to the individual.  Again, if we’re not seeing this as something that leads to spiritual growth, and just something that allows to you to learn better, daven better, or do whatever it is you have to do with your life, then it becomes very personal.  Some people like movies, and some people don’t. 

How important is the character of an artist in terms of determining the spiritual worth of that artist’s work?

Let’s talk about this issue in terms of classical music, because in terms of rock music the character of the artist is going to come out in the lyrics, and that is obviously going to be an issue.  Let’s take Wagner.  Wagner wasn’t a good guy.  Even Mozart wasn’t morally high on the list.  I don’t know how much of a difference it makes.  Maybe I don’t appreciate music enough, but I don’t find the person’s character in classical music.  Moreover, these people have the advantage of being dead, meaning, I’m not going to start worshipping them and following them on tour.  I’m not going to become a “Mozart head.” 

From an educational standpoint, how should educators of Jewish young people deal with popular culture?  How do you confront this issue? 

As a rebbe, especially a high school rebbe, there is a need for the rebbe to seem relevant.  There is a le-havin u-le-horot element in that you should know when the World Series is going on and when the Super Bowl is.  Your students should feel that they can relate to you.  They shouldn’t think that when the rabbi says something it can be dismissed because “oh, he just lives on Mars.”  Also, if you call shiur for six o’clock on Super Bowl Sunday, that’s silly, because no one’s going to come.  You have to know what’s going on.  You have to be able to present yourself as somewhat cool.  I imagine for Rav Schachter and his talmidim it’s not that important, but if you have less motivated students this is extremely important.  You can see this approach in the yeshivas in Israel.  Some yeshivas now take their kids to watch the Super Bowl.  They realize that they’re all going anyhow, so better than them going to a bar, they’ll take a tiyul and bring them to a hotel.  There’s definitely something practical to that.  Sometimes, if you want to be successful, you have to be practical.

In a college atmosphere, there is a lot more freedom of movement, and personal flexibility, so how would you recommend one budget his or her time? 

Obviously, there are classes.  Beyond classes, there’s studying.  A person has to be realistic in determining the amount of time he’s going to need to do his college classes.  He should try to maintain a steady night-seder throughout the year, with the possible exception of finals.  If a guy wants to totally shut down night-seder for finals, that’s understandable.  Obviously he shouldn’t miss.  If a student feels that he’s being pushed too hard, then to take off a night – a Thursday night, a motza’ei Shabbos, or a night when there aren’t any classes the next day – and catch a muttar movie, or watch a DVD is understandable.  However, if you’re on Xbox from eight to ten every night, and then once in a while you have a night-seder, that’s not okay.  Some students need more, and some students need less.  In most cases, I don’t think that pop culture needs to be budgeted in.  I think you’ll know when you need it, and when you don’t. 

How, then, does Judaism categorize recreation, or “R&R”? 

As Rav Schachter says, there are things that are chiuvim, there are things that are assur, and then there’s everything else that is reshus.  This falls into the “everything else” category.  You don’t get a mitzvah for listening to a Yankee game, but it has a different type of worth.  On the other hand, there’s the question of whether you could be doing a mitzvah instead and if the answer is yes, it’s better to be learning Torah, etc., but if you need to unwind, then this is okay.  It’s a reshus.

In your opinion, how concerned should Jews be with their depiction in popular media or popular culture in general? 

Anti-Semitism is a bad thing.  We don’t like Jews getting slaughtered.   Therefore, we should be very concerned if Jews are perceived as being cheaters or thieves.  This is the case particularly for Orthodox Jews: if people think of Orthodox Jews as the ones sitting in Otisville for cheating on their taxes, then that’s a tremendous hillul Hashem.  But do we have to go and make ourselves look better?  The answer is that we should already be acting in such a way.  I’ll give you an example.  I was once in Boro Park in a shop, and I came to check-out, and they said they don’t take credit cards.  So I told them I’d write a check, but they said they don’t take checks.  The bill was $100, and I didn’t have cash on me, so they called over the manager.  He looked at my check, and said, “This check’s good.”  I asked him what magic power he had that made my check good.  He answered, “Well, I see your address is in Washington Heights, and I know people there are honest, and their checks don’t bounce.” Halevai that every Jew should act in a way where people will look at all of our checks and say, “your name’s Goldberg?  Okay, your check is good.”  So it’s a big Kiddush Hashem if we act that way, but to have groups running around saying, “Hey!  Jews are great!” – I just don’t see the point.

I’ve never been a big fan of all these political action groups that tell everyone how great Jews are.  Rav Ya’akov Kamenetsky has a vort on Parashas Ha’azinu.  He quotes the Gemara in Sanhedrin quoting a Pasuk, which says, “ein ben-David ba, ad she-titya’esh min ha-geulah.”  Mashiah is not going to come until we give up hope on it.  That seems to be very strange.  It goes against “we want Mashiah now!”  Rav Ya’akov adds another question,  at the beginning of Sefer Shemos, in Parashas Va’era, Moshe goes to Pharaoh and says “Let my people go,” and Pharaoh ends up saying, not only won’t I let them go, but the Jews used to get Teven, and now they won’t even get that anymore.  Why was it necessary for us to be told this?  Rav Ya’akov answers that as long as we think the Geulah is going to come by talking to the goyim and engaging in the political process, then forget it.  It’s not going to work.  We have to keep good relationships, but if you think that that’s where you’re going to put all your hope, well then you have to realize that while we have to be an or la-Goyim, that’s not where we have to put all our faith. 

How does one handle popular culture in the context of raising one’s children? 

I assume that most guys in YU are not going to go on to become cloistered Hassidim, so memeilah we don’t need to do anything to encourage contact with pop culture as it’s going to happen on its own.  For me personally, we don’t have a TV in our house.  It just becomes such a waste of time.  I remember when I was growing up, we had a TV in our house and I wasted hours in front of it.  One wonders whether my time would have been better spent biking, or doing something more productive.  I’m not an expert in parenting, but I find that it’s easier to say “yes,” than “no,” so providing children with other options, encouraging extra-curricular activities that have value rather than prohibiting certain types of pop culture is more effective.

How does popular, lowbrow culture relate to the issue of Torah-u-Madda? 

If you understand Torah U’Madda as using secular knowledge to better understand the Torah, pop culture would not be seen as the positive form of Madda which we encourage.  If you take the view that secular knowledge enhances one’s appreciation of G-d and his universe, it may fit-in in limited cases.

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